Doctor's Office
| Doctor Debates Universal Health Care: Pros and Cons From the Experts |
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“Health insurance is expensive, and not everyone can afford it,” goes one argument. "The government should provide everyone with access to paid-for health care.” “That's not fair," goes the other. “For example, why should everyone have to pay for people who choose not to take care of themselves, such as smokers?”
We asked two doctors with strong opinions on the topic to share their side. Here’s what they had to say. You can get in on the debate here.
FOR How can there be a debate over whether universal health care is itself a desirable goal? A 2002 Institutes of Medicine study concluded that more than 18,000 Americans die every year because they’re uninsured. Some kind of health coverage for every citizen would mean fewer child deaths from asthma, fewer cancer deaths in minority communities and fewer veterans who depend on emergency rooms for their primary care. The real questions are how universal care would be paid for and who would decide levels of reimbursement For
Patrick Whelan, M.D, Ph.D., practicing rheumatologist, national executive director of Catholic Democrats (a public-advocacy organization) and Catholic member of the Democratic National Committee's Faith Advisory Council. Health insurance companies spend heavily to condemn something called “socialized medicine,” recognizing that any single-payer plan would likely result in heavy losses for their industry. But no major organizations or national political figures have advocated creating a system like Great Britain’s, where the government owns all the facilities and employs all the doctors and nurses. Two other myths about universal care are that doctors oppose it and that quality of care would suffer. But a plurality of physicians, particularly primary-care doctors, supports national health insurance. And there is now strong evidence that, even in developed countries with addiction problems like ours, universal coverage correlates with improved quality of health across the socioeconomic spectrum. AGAINST Against
John S. O’Shea, M.D., M.P.A., F.A.C.S., practicing general surgeon and former fellow with conservative think tank The Heritage Foundation. America is often criticized for its lack of a universal health-care system comparable to the Europeans and Canadians, even though Germany, the United Kingdom and even Canada are increasingly turning to the private sector in order to relieve the financial burden on government and solve serious delivery problems, most notably “rationing by queue,” the prolonged wait times for many services, including cancer treatment and cardiac surgery. Compared to the private sector, government programs are inefficient and the higher costs have to be paid for with higher taxes or spending cuts in other areas such as defense, education, or even medical research and development. This is a tradeoff that most Americans would not be willing to make. If low-income persons find health-care coverage unaffordable, they should be subsidized by the government, but they should retain ultimate ownership of their health-care resources and the choice about how those resources will be utilized. Such patient ownership and choice will create the demand for price and quality transparency necessary to make value-based health-care decisions. The fundamental flaw in universal health-care systems is a misplacement of incentives. The decisions that drive health-care costs and quality of care are made by individual patients and their health-care providers. These decisions should not be influenced by universal government mandates, administered pricing systems or expenditure targets, but should instead be based on an adequately informed assessment by individual patients and their providers about the value of services in a particular clinical situation.
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Comments (96)
  written by Bethany , February 06, 2010 im fifteen years old. dont ignore this comment only because of that fact though. all that american adults seem to be worried about right now is money. people say that jobless people are lazy and all they need to do is get up and get a job. what those people WITH jobs dont realize is that they CANT. america is in a recession. companies are constantly laying off more and more people. what makes you think that if they have to lay people off then they can just turn around and hire more people? it doesnt happen. imagine this scenario if you will: two men are driving down the road after work. both are going home to a wife and two children. one man can afford health insurance. the other cannot. suppose they got in a crash and both were horribly injured. does the uninsured man deserve to suffer simply because he cant afford insurance? exluding people from medical help only because they cant pay for insurance is barbaric. maybe im young and naiive, but i dont understand why the government doesnt just tax the richer people who actually CAN afford to pay the taxes. here are movie stars and famous singers spending hundreds of dollars on botox and perfume. really? have a heart. adults need to get off their high horses and think about other people instead of themselves for a change. if can barely afford to pay the taxes you have right now, thats understandable. but you can really afford to sit by a pool all day sipping on drinks simply because you can pretend to be someone else? take some of that stored away money that your never going to use in your lifetime and help other people who cant even afford the luxery of a shower every day. you always tell us teenagers to grow up. why dont you watch some of us for a day? we care about other people. not just money. maybe adults need to take us as an example and open your damn cold hearts.  written by AA , January 23, 2010 I agree that some sort of Universal Healthcare system needs to be in place for all. I would like to respond to the comments made by some that it is all about greed. The reason most hospitals charge so much for healthcare is that they usually see only a fraction of the charge. Next time you go the the doctor and your insurance company sends you the explanation of benefits, look and see what the hospital charged and what they were actually paid. If they charged what would be considered reasonable, they would not make enough to stay open and no one would have access. Also, if you think the physicians are greedy for charging $80-$100 to walk through the door (or $125-$250 for the specialty clinic I work for) think about what they do. They are in school for at least 8 years, and then fellowship, depending on specialty, for several more years. They are expected to be up to date on the latest information, so they have to spend money to continue their education, and the conferences they attend are not cheap. They also have to pay for malpractice insurance (which is un-Godly expensive) in case someone decides that they don't like the doc and want to sue. They hold a person's life and health on the line with every decision they make and are expected to always make the right decision. Wouldn't you expect to be paid well for this? I agree that there is greed in the healthcare system, but I think, I think the horrendous cost is multi-factoral and much blame lies on the insurance companies. I also say that we, as a people, need to be accountable for our own health and take care of ourselves. We all know what we need to do to be healthy and we should do it!  written by Michelle , January 22, 2010 I have always heard that Americans are shelfish. I didn't know to this extent. I was born and raised an Australian, we have UHC. I, and many people I know would never dream of going to America. Your doctors run for profits, and most of you are actually backing them. I worked in a Doctors surgery for most of my life. There has never been a wait for more than a day for a paitent who needs to see a doctor. I think that those of you who have written comments about UHC should actually read more about it... as you have no idea. You will not go poor from the tax that goes into UHC. But I do find you all very shelfish, you would prefer to see a child or adult die from not getting health care, than spend a few extra dollars on your health care. Sick!!! Maybe that is why Michael Moore produced the movie SICKO, maybe you should all watch it and try to understand that your recent system does not run as well as the rest of the world and actually spends to most in any County!  written by Kevin Burnham , January 14, 2010 I am an Olympic Gold and Silver Medalist for the USA. I was the oldest Gold Medalist in the 2004 Olympics. I have taken care of myself and found myself in an emergency room recently for labored breathing. I found out that I have become allergic to eating shellfish. I literally was unable to breath. I received oxygen, chest x-ray, EKG, an IV and was in the hospital for a little over an hour. I just received the bill in the mail for USD 5,000.00 Yes, that is right five thousand dollars! I am outraged at our greed from the medical community that has handcuffed us while they line their pockets. Something has to change FAST!  written by Elaine , January 04, 2010 Thank goodness, yes, GOODNESS, I was born in Canada. Such selfishness... it makes me despair for you all.  written by Christy , December 05, 2009 The problem with our health care system is not all to blame on the insurance companies. Lets start with the doctors who charge $80 to $100 to walk in the door just to talk to them before an necessary testing is done. Then lets talk about the high cost of malpractice insurance. And he talk about the pharmacuetical companies and so on. And why must everyone complain about helping to provide health care for the young, old, and uninsured. Do you complain about food stamps, AFDC, HUD, and the other programs that your tax dollars pay for? I have been on food stamps and AFDC and guess what I worked too. I paid my tax dollars in. Yes there are people out there that abuse these programs but if you have a social program there will always be those that abuse it. That doesn't mean we throw the people who need it under the bus. the solution is to lower malpractice costs, pay every doctor a monthly salary, and make sure that there are enough providers to handle the patients. I love the United States wouldn't want to live any where else however I do feel that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and that is what is worng with our great country.  written by agbcyuacgujcg , December 04, 2009 I may sound ignorant, but what if I just don't care about anybody but those important to me (and myself)? What if the current healthcare system works for me and this will just bring me down? I'm tired of money leaking from my paycheck to pay for other people. Its dog eat dog, and I don't fit moralities into the equation.  written by Norb Janiszewski , November 30, 2009 I had the opportunity to read many of the remarks on the subject of universal Health Care. It is interesting to reflect that most if not all opinions are the result of influence from some one other than the writer. Both pros and cons reflect on cost,quality of physician care, unwillingness to support the poor, prejudices against those who are not part of our country (IE illegal immigrants). All of these pros and cons utilize arguments directly against/for such issues. In my opinion,special interest groups influence our Congress to pass laws not necessarily for the good of us the constituents but in support of the special interest groups, since they provide large amounts of money for reelection efforts. It does not seem possible that universal Health Care would affect us monetarily or health wise. it would appear the sole reason universe care is objected to is it would reduce if not eliminate the ungodly profit insurance companies enjoy. I suspect the arguments from the insurance companies relate to loss of jobs in the insurance industry and thus loss of monetary support for reelection of Congressmen and Senators as well as general disruption of our economy. The bottom line tells me that universal Health Care is an necessity for our society. We continue to supply exhobant profits to insurance companies, we can no longer afford to give our money to those who seek only profit, we need to protect our citizens in any way possible and that certainly includes education as well as treatment. Medical Care needs to be a relationship between a Dr. and his/her patient and not the Dr.as regulated by insurance companies. I have experienced the pain of being released from a hospital prior to physically having the strength to leave because of dictates of insurance companies. This is not the only violation of the trust of their customers and of this I'm certain. Insurance companies serve only himself and do not have concern for comer health Over the years insurance costs continue to rise while medical care continues to suffer. Please do the research yourself and try to eliminate any prejudice or bias, instead concentrate on your fellow Americans, this country can return to the greatness and mutual care for all as it existed many years ago. We need each other (the world is not about you),for existence relies on mutual support. It won't work if mine, your or any interest is above our collective well being.  written by Hugh B. , November 19, 2009 Regardless of whether we have private insurance or UHC we will have to pay for it! As of right now many people would say that health care should be between a person and their physician and the government shouldn't be involved. When in reality, with our current system, health care isn't between a person and their doctor, it's between a person and their INSURANCE COMPANY!!! Why should people be denied insurance because of preexisting conditions? Why should people be turned away from a hospital because they can't afford it? Why should people suffer while others profit? UHC works in many countries; Wait times are lower; Infant mortality rates are lower; People are in turn healthier and require less visits to the doctor. And the financial aspect does not hurt the working class because it evens out in the end. The transition won't be easy but it will be worth it in the long run. Many of the problems that people see with UHC are not solely to blame on what UHC is, but how it interacts with programs and systems already in place. Things have to change in order for this to work efficiently. We can't just plop UHC into place without changing programs, systems, and plans that are already in place. When we evolve the entire system, begin to change everything for the betterment of all Americans, that is when UHC will be undoubtedly better than private insurance. For those of you who have an opinion that is so quickly given without the consideration of others, please do some more research and really take a hard look at what we have now and how it is affecting our nation and our people, ALL of our people. Because in the end it's not who utilizes the system more and for what reason, it's that the system is even there to begin with, that it's there when we need it, when we all need it.  written by Benny , November 12, 2009 My friend and I joined the U.S Marines about 6 months ago. We leave for basic in June. We were told our starting salaries and they were around 1,200 a month. That was 6 months ago. Our recruiter told us that in UHC does go into effect then our salaries go from 1,200 a month to around 950 a month. My parents make about 800 a month each. They struggle just to pay the bills. My parents aren't the only ones who struggle. Then I look at a few of my neighbors. One of them is on food stamps but he can afford to drive a brand new corvett with full coverage. They live in a two story house and to my knowlage they don't have a job. Now, if UHC does pass, then people like them are going to benefit and people like me and my family are going to struggle even more.  written by Grey , October 26, 2009 To those who see increased cost in universal health care, do you not see costs escalating now with our current system? Do you honestly think that's going to stop? To those who think our medical access is so great now, have you ever tried to book an appt. for a mammogram? Try five-six months out in Los Angeles--WITH insurance. Sick child to see his PCP? At least 2-3 days--IF you can get through the office staff to make an appt.--WITH insurance. This is so great? For this we pay $900/mo. for family coverage? I don't get what's so great about this. Yes, there will always be free-loaders, just as there will always be tax-cheats. Does that mean we deny coverage to children born with birth defects? To accident victims? To people who happened to develop cancer or cardiac problems despite living a healthy lifestyle? (you'll always have the smoker who lives to be 100, never a sick day in his life). University in other countries is often free to those smart enough to get in. Doctors can work for lower salaries because they have no student debt load--or huge malpractice premiums. The U.S. system only works for those who are rich and lucky enough to be born with the right genes.  written by D. Jackson , October 12, 2009 we have become a nation divided....because we let the people we elected to serve us ,rob us .... healthcare should be like a library....free to all... the best healthcare in the U.S. is given to people like senators and congressmen, AND it's run by the GOVT. !!! do you think they pay a deductible ?? i wouldn't wish my worst enemy would go to a V.A. hospital....the care there is HORRIBLE !!! my uncle was a marine who fought in korea for his country...i know first hand what goes on in that mess !! PEOPLE, OUR WORST ENEMIES GET BETTER CARE THAN OUR HEROS !!!! the poeple who were at the world trade center ( our heros ) are suffering with terrible health problems while the people who did the bombings are given excellent heath care !!! why ? because the world is watching !!! it's our greedy, careless elected officials who are profiting from our suffering !! they WORK FOR US !!! but we are making them RICH !! healthcare should be free as well as education.....the only people who disagree are the ones who benefit from the profits. i have been to france, and despite all the smoking and drinking that goes on there, the people are healthier than us AND live longer...the only difference is they DONT worry about good healthcare....they get it, but we get stress schools used to be free,( yes, in THIS country !! ) until these polititians stopped it...the very same ones who benefitted from a free college education !!! when you speak of your taxes supporting some people who wont take care of themselves, it sounds stupid ! people who smoke or drink or who are fat...lets take it further, how about people who swim or use sugar ? maybe we should outlaw wine....no more communion...you could drown if you swim, you could trigger diabetes if you eat sugar, etc. as for benefitting poor people, medicare AND medicaid SUCKS !!!! RICH PEOPLE DO NOT COME HERE FOR MEDICAL ATTENTION UNLESS ITS PLASTIC SURGERY !! RICH PEOPLE FROM THE U.S. GO TO MEXICO FOR EXSPENSIVE SURGERIES !!!! IT ONLY TAKES ONE SMALL STEP TO BE DESTITUTE BECAUSE OF MEDICAL BILLS !!! THERE BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD GO I.... OR YOU !!! AS A BORN AND RAISED HERE AMERICAN I SAY WE NEED TO STOP BEING DIVIDED AND COME TOGETHER FOR THIS !!!!!  written by Lizi , October 07, 2009 I find it funny how people believe that people will actually become healthier if we get UHC. Do you not realize that people will literally have to wait MONTHS for transplants that could have regularly been done within days? The taxes will be soaring if this goes into affect & I'm reasonably sure that most people can't afford this, especially if they can't afford healthcare. Not everything's free & not everything works. I think it's time that we realize this.  written by ASHLEY HALL , October 02, 2009 i might be 16 and i might live in a group home but i have a strong opinion against universal health care!!! why would you want to have to pay for every one else to have health care, it might sound like the right thing to do but if you actually had to do it you would think diffarent....and how is the goverment going to pay for every one in the u.s. if they can barly pay for our own veterans.....snap in to reality its not going to work.....its just going to ruin our country!!!!!  written by Levi , September 27, 2009 "Also, even though we spend more on healthcare than any other industrialized country, our health outcomes are still poor. We are mostly overweight, out of shape, and suffer high incidents of diabetes, high blood pressure and heart attacks, which are all related to poor healthcare. UHC will help by intervening early." and "As for "poor people" there are more poor whites than poor blacks and hispanics even though the percentage of the pop is lower. So please leave your bigotry and ignorance out of debate." Quote by Pablo Zed That's funny... poor healthcare is to blame because people are fat, out of shape, smoke, and get diabetes? Don't you think the people WHO ARE FAT are to blame? Holy crap man... you need to learn some responsibility. If you get fat, it's your own damn fault. People need to quit blaming their own problems on EVERYONE else! People who take care of their bodies and don't need to go to the doctor all the time shouldn't be paying for those people who smoke and simply don't take care of themselves. And btw our "poor healthcare" is actually a lot better than countries with universal healthcare. If I was going to spend 10 years at school and huge amounts of money to be a doctor, I better damn well make a ton of money. Greed is good, it's what pushes people to work hard. If I were to find out that I'm not going to make as much money and have to take care of a s*** ton more people then I think I'm gonna give them a little worse healthcare 'cause I wouldn't care. Last but not least, I'm not saying anything negatively about blacks or hispanics but I just wanted to correct your little percent of the population thing. There are more "poor" whites because they are a larger percent of the population. There is a larger percent of "poor" blacks and hispanics than there are whites. EX: 1000 whites, 100 blacks, and 100 hispanics. 50 whites are "poor" = 5% and 10 blacks are "poor" and 10 hispanics are "poor" = 10% each... Don't really get where you were going with that or what that has to do with healthcare but just thought I'd correct you. ---- Editor's note: Comment edited for language (stars added). Please see our comment policy: http://familydoctormag.com/comment-policy.html . Thank you for commenting. We understand this is a heated debate.  written by Karmal , September 19, 2009 Literal blood money funds record US private insurance profits at the expense of the sick and dying. Yesterday, insurance industry whistleblowers Dr. Linda Peeno and Wendell Potter testified before Congress about the myriad devious ways the insurance industry maximizes profit at the expense of patients, including funding front groups to shape health care reform to their own ends. Their testimony should dispel any remaining illusions that the private insurance industry is providing any positive benefit to the American people. http://www.pnhp.org/news/2009/september/testimony_of_wendell.php  written by Bernard F. Peters Jr. , September 18, 2009 Universal Healthcare is working elsewhere, and those citizens would revolt if their governments tried to take it from them. Meanwhile our own "Great" country will let a child die, or let a person suffer because they don't have insurance? Frequently, even with insurance coverage the insurance companies will deny treatment due to whatever reason supports their refusals. My own mother has been denyed coverage due to some bull#@!^ reasons, and she was just trying to protect herself for her future! Nobody in need should ever be turned away for any reason, we all pay through the nose in taxes every year for what? Unfortunately as long as the insurance companies have unlimited resources for their lobbyists throw at our representatives, we will never see universal healthcare! We need to come together and stand up to this corrupt government! The money is already there for UHC and we all deserve it, our government has lied to us long enough, and I dont think people will stand for much more of it!  written by K.A. Talabi , September 16, 2009 I have to personally say that the difference between developed nations and underdeveloped nations is that one knows how to take care of it's poor. Healthcare coverage should not be a matter of choice, because cancer and other diseases does not just pick on certain individuals. Why is it mandatory to have minimum auto insurance coverage in almost all the states, but we can not set minimum health care coverage for every citizen in this great country? Something is missing. For as long as we don't have a way to provide affordable health care for the poor, the working class will continue to pay thru their nose, because hospitals, and Medical doctors will not work for free.  written by steven coyle , September 10, 2009 this is crazy.how can we be the great country we say we are when are citizens put money above are own lives.America where everything is about money.universal health care.No more profit for lives.the doctors will still make there money.If a insurance company can they will refuse coverage,they have people find away to refuse coverge.every citizen should have the right to treatment by a doctor no one should be refused the right to live.if the republicans & others say universal healthcare is so bad and citizens will distrust goverment run healthcare why do they say it will put the insurance companys out of business.  written by brant , August 31, 2009 The best comparison USA’s health care has, is to the automotive industry. If you have private insurance (full coverage) the higher the final bill. Were using insurance to pay at least 20% more for the same service. I think it’s pretty screwed up that certain doctors only accept certain insurances. If that isn’t an obvious collusion between private insurance and doctors I don’t know what is. This results in higher prices for services which equals higher profits for docs and insurers. But ultimately screws the American people who are only covered up to 80% if they’re lucky, I think the new and unimproved coverage is 50%. Bring on socialized health care, for EVERYONE, not just for Children, VET’s, and the Elderly.  written by fish killer , August 21, 2009 Everybody seems to think that life should be fair. The reality is that it isn't and never has been. We are all going to die, with or without universal health care. Life expectency will not dramatically increase with it, or without it. Not one person here has mentioned tort reform. Frivilous lawsuits cause doctors to practice defense first, medicine second. Redundent tests, and procedures, cause much of the cost of medicine, as does malpractice insurance. When a doctor has to pay $250,000 or more a year, he has to make that back. Dispite what lawyers who adveritse on television will lead you to believe, they are human. If you are human you will make a mistake. Smart humans are less likely to screw up, and that is why we need smart doctors. Take the money from medicine, and you will drain it of brains. The class clown will become the doctor, not the valedictorian. Scarey. An emergency room doctor recently told me that either madicaid or medicare was reimbursing doctors at the rate of 22 cents to the dollar. Government health care in bankrupting physicians. The government has proven time and again they cannot run or administer anything effectively or in a cost efficient mannner. Why would you believe they could start now? Is Cialis right for me? I'm supposed to ask my doctor. How about ambien? I always thought when I went to my doctor, I was suppose to tell him my symptons, and he would prescribe a treatment for my particular ailment. Now I guess the procedure is to tell your doctor what you want to take. Those commercials are expensive. It is shameful in my opinion, that drug companies are sllowed to advertise in such a fashion. THAT IS WHY YOUR PRESCRIPTION IS SO EXPENSIVE. I'm a commercial fisherman, not a doctor. I do have family in the health care business. They claim 30% of health care costs are due to third party billing. That is insurance, just to be clear. If we were to eliminate health insurance completely, have massive tort reform that will excuse a person for being human, and if everybody would get over the idea that we are going to live forever and that swometimes good people die for bad reasons, I am sure just about everybody that has a job could pay for it out of pocket.For the people who don't have a job, a growing number, I guess you will just have to keep on doing what you have been doing, going to the emergency room.  written by Phalicia , August 19, 2009 To those of you who have been complaining about people looking for a "free ride," I want you to think back to elementary school. Do you remember those little brats who would ask for a bathroom pass only to wander around the halls or hang out in the bathroom and waste time? Then there was always that little kid who really HAD to use the bathroom, but since the bathroom pass had been taken advantage of, that little guy had to suffer. People will always take advantage of good things, and I'm not in support of such lifestyles, but I just thought I'd throw that out there. I don't have insurance. I had to drop out of college because I can't afford it. Now I work at McDonald's and get no support from anyone. I don't have a car so this is the only job available to me right now. It's not so easy just to "find a job and make it for yourself" when there ARE no jobs. Yes, there are people who sit back and spend other people's tax money, but there are also people who are working their asses off to stay afloat. I make about $585 a month, and I pay about $485 for rent, utilities, phone, and student loans. That leaves a whopping $100 a month for food and necessities. This is no way to live. I'm constantly terrified of getting hurt because there is NO WAY I could afford a hospital visit! I had to sign a paper at work stating that if I get injured no one is to call an ambulance. Why should I have to do that? I work hard just like the rest of you. I don't think health care should be limited to the wealthy hardworking citizens, but to ALL hardworking citizens.  written by caly , August 13, 2009 hey I may be 13 but i like trying to keep up with the times so any way my idea is this should work like food stamps you pay if you can if you cant then you get a small/large coverage depending on family size, age, if you smoke, or have some medicall condition thare problem Solved!- Caly R.  written by Stefan , July 27, 2009 Well, we are in a recession right now and millions of people are losing their jobs (and any health insurance that is provided by their employers). The opposing arguments on this thread all say the same thing, which is that you don't want to help people who can't or don't want to help themselves. Well, imagine you are one of those unlucky people who got laid off because of the recession. I mean... What would you do? What would you do if you lost your job and your health insurance and your son or daughter got injured? Or if your wife or husband got cancer? I just want to know... Could you tell me what you would do if you happened to be one of those unlucky people?  written by Sick and tired American Middle Class , July 24, 2009 Haven't we learned anything from Medicaid. I'm am sick and tired of seeing people who are working part-time jobs (or no jobs at all) with a house full of children that have their medical expenses covered and are receiving food stamps and you see them eating out, going to an amusement park, having a seperate purchase in the grocery store line for their beer and cigarettes, etc. Yes, there are some people who are genuinely trying to make it in this world and TEMPORARILY need some assistance. However, there are far too many people who take advantage of the abundance of types of assistance offered in this country. When are we going to learn to stop enabling these individuals to sit on their butts and collect what they can?  written by Michael , July 23, 2009 I hear some of you complaining about insane cost of health insurance. But it is so high because of the insane costs these hospitals are charging. It cost 10 dollars for one advil at a hospital, and hospitals don't really care how much they are charging insurance companies as they try to squeeze as much money as they can out of them.  written by J.S. Thompson , July 21, 2009 The well educated ones will know what to do. They will disect every little word you have to say about this. We, the common, will need to prove ourselves "common", and stand for what we know is right. Keep your focus on your belief, but know there will always be opposition. There will always be two sides to everything. Both will be viewed carefully, and credible consensus will prevail. Some will concur, some will completely lose it. Not every one will be pleased. Some will suffer. That is unfortunate, but unavoidable. We will hear of many successful stories, along with the miserable ones. We will all have to have a heart and compassion for one another. In Kentucky, our motto is: United we stand, Divided we fall. So, regardless of the outcome, we will need to stand strong next to one another and look at each other in the eyes, and say, "We can handle this". Best of luck to you all, fellow American's.  written by steve , July 16, 2009 I think we Americans are so focused on the evils of taxes and big government that we fail to notice when we are being ripped off by the private sector. Insurance is a big business in this country. If you think these people will sacrifice their bottom line and pay for your medical needs without a fight, you are a fool. They have vast resources; huge numbers of lawyers and “administrators” whose only goal is to find a reason, no matter how trivial, to deny your claim thereby maximizing profits. Even if your life is at stake. These are companies that YOU PAY to cover you and your family if you get ill or seriously ill and the premiums aren’t cheap. $1000 per month will only buy you a mediocre family plan and that will only cover so much. Go ahead, read your policy; its right there in print. There is an upper limit. Now Google how much an average cost is for a catastrophic illness. Even if the member of your family survives you’ll lose everything you own. We are the lucky ones. We’re insured. The real lunacy here is that we’ve allowed this despicable behavior to continue for so long.  written by MB , July 16, 2009 UHC care is great if you don't get seriously ill. A relative of mine in Greece broke their hip and had to wait 3 weeks for a hip replacement. That does not happen here. Hospital bed sheets go unchanged, physican quality is poorer, I can go on and on. People actually pay doctors under the table to obtain better service. We already have Medicare and Medicaid. Those programs should be revamped to include all the uninsured. Social programs paid for by the government (read taxpayers) are not intended for a permanent fix. They are intended to help out people who are down and out trying to get back on their feet. Just using common sense and real life experience, a permanent social program, whatever it may be, reduces the incentive for one to better themselves. Why do anything or work for anything when you can get it for "free" from someone else? There is too much wasteful spending in government. I do not trust our politicians. Half or our tax money collected for UHC will not even go towards services it will go towards grossly overinflated overhead, political favors, beaurocrats. At least when you pay a private company they have to compete for your business. This is a serious issue that should be debated in Congress, but Obama and the congressional democrats are trying to push this so fast. It should make you wonder. The bill is over 1,000 pages do you really think all the Senators and House Reps have read it? And I'm sorry, but do you really think that being taxed at a 50% rate is fair and just? All these Europeans blogging posts on here seem to think the government taxing at half is OK. That is insane to me! We the People deserve quality programs at a fair rate. Most Americans do not mind paying their fair share, but we are being exploited and I'm telling you this country is not far from revolting.  written by Jolene , July 09, 2009 I lived overseas for two years (2000-2002). I witnessed UHC in action. One woman I knew in Great Britain was in the hospital for bypass surgery. She was scrubbed and prepped on the gurney outside of the Operating Room when her surgeon came out and told her that there were no beds that day. He told her to go home and return in 3-4 MONTHS...for BYPASS SURGERY!!! Also at that time GB was sending many of its patients to France for surgery becasue it could not accommadate them all. Poeple come to the US now from other countries for healthcare. Remember when the King of Jordan came to the Mayo Clinic? Where will we go? Canada? I do not want this kind of change. Also, same two year timeframe, my nextdoor neighbor showed me his yearly income tax assessment at a 50% rate to pay for all of the social services, including UHC, that the Belgian government provided. He was retired with a modest home business in a middle class neighborhood and was taxed at 50%. I do not want such an income tax rate imposed upon the USA. Our rates are high enough as they are. This is a slippery slope we are on. Be careful what you wish for...  written by Bob , July 03, 2009 Ihave only started doing research for a school paper, but I have read that in canada they have fewer diagnostic equipment per capita than the us. Also, there is the greed factor. Private companies have an incentive to provide a service if there is a profit to be made. No profit = no service. Is anyone really naive enough to believe that most doctors do it for the priveledge of helping their fellow man? Puh-leez, I actually had a doctor once tell me "I can run some tests to determine what's wrong with you, but tests cost money and I think they would be negative anyway, so I'm not going to order any tests." I was working and had insureance at that time. I don't now. He was concerned that running tests would cut into his profit margin, so no tests. sounds like a compassionate carring doctor to me, not. When doctors are paid a flat fee regardless of whether they see you or not, there is no incentive to give good care. If they can come up with a real solution to provide quality care for all, then I would be in favor of it. but, I have my doubts.  written by Terrified , June 30, 2009 Nothing is for free! Taxes will be outragous for the ones that actually pay. People that are poor, still get helped. My uncle Bob had cancer and was told he would die within a year. He had no health insurance. He, unfortunatly didn't own anything either. The government could'nt cause him to go bankrupt. The doctors that cared for him nick-named him "The million dollar miracle man," because he lived another 10 years! If the goverment can tell GM how to conduct business, they should be able to control medical cost for people that work hard, own home,and barely make it without free hand-outs! Also, the ones that get that free-hand-out, should have to take a drug test before they get thier goverment check. Most jobs these days require a drug test. Don't get me wrong, alot of people deserve thier check, but alot go out and (party) on tax payers money. If health care is free, people will go for the smallest ache or sniffle. I know people that have excellent health insurance and they do just that cause it doesn't cost them anything. My husband is a vietnam vet, so he gets free VA health care. They treat him good, but, he talks to other vets and they have horror stories about thier free care. There is pros and cons on this, unfortunatly talking with people in Canada and reading article after article from other countries that have free health care, I'm not for it! If it's free, people that can afford private insurence, will stop paying. Why not give everybody a free ride on welfare too?  written by David , June 20, 2009 There are people in this country who obviously CAN afford health insurance, and for most of them it isn't because they were born wealthy. They worked hard to get health care. Now there is nothing stopping those people who are too poor to afford health insurance from working hard to earn it. Look at our president for example, he's a minority and he started with next to nothing. The difference with him is he was willing to WORK for it, and there is nothing stopping everyone else from doing the same. It's not right for me to have to work my ass off to provide health care for me and my family while other people expect it for free, and then my health care has to suffer for it. If you have half a brain, you can earn you're keep just like everyone else.  written by Pablo Zed , June 07, 2009 Because foreign carmakers do not carry that burden in Japan or Germany, those companies can beat us on price. Also, even though we spend more on healthcare than any other industrialized country, our health outcomes are still poor. We are mostly overweight, out of shape, and suffer high incidents of diabetes, high blood pressure and heart attacks, which are all related to poor healthcare. UHC will help by intervening early. As for "poor people" there are more poor whites than poor blacks and hispanics even though the percentage of the pop is lower. So please leave your bigotry and ignorance out of debate.  written by KAO , June 02, 2009 Government and state funded insurance programs SUCK, but if Americans are crying for Universal healthcare then let them dig a bigger hole to their own grave!!! UHC is a bad idea!Obama's so called "CHANGE" will kill our economy and get us into bigger debt! No thanks, keep the CHANGE!  written by Sam , June 01, 2009 Yes, America should have universal health coverage. I think we should stop worrying about how much taxes we would have to pay for this! I mean really, people are dying around you from not affording anything and your worried about taxes?!?!?!?  written by Edith , June 01, 2009 America is greedy and stingy. Just wait until one day you lose your job and lose your insurance then you will wish the US had UHC. I say GO FOR IT! it would make the US a better place and the people more healthy.  written by Kayla , May 29, 2009 i am so not for socialized medicine because our tax prices will go way up.  written by Richard , May 25, 2009 Whenever something becomes common, the quality falls. Healthcare is a commodity like any other commodity. Why is healthcare being given special attention? If you don't have health insurance and you fall sick, you may die. How about food? If you don't have food to eat, would you die? Yes. So, should the government provide food for everybody? If you can buy food, why can't you buy health insurance? You buy auto insurance or bus pass. Should the government provide that for everybody too, instead of the private sector doing it? The current healthcare system managed by the government (Medicare, Medicaid) is bankrupt. Why do you want to trust the same government to handle a even bigger system like national healthcare? Population: Netherlands - 16 million Canada - 33 million UK - 60 million Japan - 127 million USA - 300 million How do you suppose the US can provide healthcare for 300 million, when most of the US population is poor? Illegal aliens, blacks, hispanics, etc are mostly poor. Huge numbers of poor people. For those who think America is rich, no America is in debt up to its eyeballs. America is living on Credit cards. National healthcare is just going to add to that debt. America is burdened by high levels of debt. National healthcare would be the last straw that makes this country collapse under it's own weight. Beware what you wish for.  written by Jeroen , May 23, 2009 First of all, I'm from The Netherlands. I came upon this website whilst doing some research about UHC. I most say I'm surprised by the amount of people who are against UHC here! Ofcourse here in Holland we have our complaints about it (that's what we're Dutch for, famous for complaining), but it surely works! As for the costs, we do pay quite some tax, the highest tier is 52%, but after my research, I concluded that the people in the US pay about the same amount in the end. As for me, I pay 37% tax, and 60 euro (say about 75 dollar) extra per month for HC, but for example my girlfriend pays 120 euro's, and is insured for much more (glasses, contacts, dentist). No questions are asked if you go to the doctor, hospital or dentist, no paperwork. Everything is taken care of. With everybody having HC, everybody is working, hence better for the economy!! As for the waiting lists, there might be some, but I've never noticed with me, or my surroundings. An uncle of mine has had several tumor operations, and he didn't have to wait for a bed. Quality of US hospitals might be better, but why is it that the US ranks 23th when it comes to infant mortality, and 20th for life expectancy???! But overall, what I read and see around me, is that people are just happier with UHC!! And isn't that what it's all about?  written by Rasmus Gjesdal , May 23, 2009 When it comes to health care I have received care in countries where there is socialized medicine such as Norway, Canada and Denmark. In the US I have been a member of Etna, Scott White, Kaiser, Health Plan of Nevada and others. The main difference between the HMO's and true health care is that HMO's practice medicine for money. While most doctors practice medicine for the betterment of society and their love of humanity the HMO's make it tantamount to "love for sale". In other words comparing the two systems is an insult. This insult is further exemplified in the lies about waiting time where socialized medicine is available. I have never to wait for service in other countries like I have in the US. The scare tactics employed by the HMO's is only indicative of the desire the HMO's have to line their pockets in lieu of medical coverage. With the worst health care of any industrialized nation we also pay the most: If Socialized Medicine ranks 90 on a scale of 100 it would put a group such as Keiser at 23 and Nevada Health Plan at 3. With such a discrepancy in ranking the US have to get at least close to the civilized form of medicine before any qualified opinion is considered.  written by UHC means life , May 15, 2009 To all those who think that UHC is a waste of money, I want you to think about the ethics behind it. HUMANS HELPING HUMANS. I find it dispickable that the wealthy, having an innate fortune, can brush off and ignore the poor who, lets face it cant have it much worse. If you dont believe that UHC will help this collapsing nation I am disgraced to call myself a human just like you.  written by Sherry Knight , May 14, 2009 Why is it the rich and famous always come to the U.S. for any major medical procedure? Could it be we have the best hospitals, doctors, and medicine in the world? Why is this? A free market that has allowed our system to educate, research through our pharmaceutical industry. and progress to the best in the world. There is a need for some tweeking but NOT UHC. This county wastes so much money now on special projects, those in need could be given health care.  written by Flubug , April 16, 2009 While many of you had plenty to say about the prospect of Universal Health Care, most offered absolutely no solutions to our current situation. Did you know that hospitals are not allowed by law to send a bill to a Medicare or Medicaid patient, even if Medicare or Medicaid does not pay the bill? Yes, they DON'T pay for many of the non-emergency visits to the ER! Those on either of these "insurance" programs often don't have a clue as to how much they are costing others who do receive bills (the bad debt IS passed on to others). My solution is for hospitals to have the ability to at least send these folks a bill and try to collect what they can from the patient. I am in the health field and often hear from Medicaid/Medicare patients that "the government will pay". When told that it may not, while they may be quite surprised to hear this, they don't care because they never see the bill anyway. The other comment I have is that the latest estimated cost to countries with health care for all is approximately 13% per person. If you make $60,000 per year, you would be giving $7800.00 to the government just for health care.  written by Jim Winters , April 13, 2009 A few interesting responses from a Topix Poll, http://www.topix.com/forum/top...15A46O62E Alex writes, "Well it is possible if you want 50% of your income to go to the government and don't expect it to be a very good universal healthcare system."  written by Daniel , April 11, 2009 Seriously... You would think the UNITED STATES of America would have UNITED citizens. You're worried about paying higher taxes? Seriously? Your neighbors are DYING. Taxes are the cost for keeping the country alive, and you're worried about your wallet? I'm fortunate to have parents that can afford to pay for my health insurance. I'm a store manager and I don't have medical benefits. My employees can't even get a doctors note because they don't have insurance. One of my best friends has diabetes, and must have an insulin pump attached to him at all times to regulate his blood sugar throughout the day. His parents cannot afford health insurance, he works 25-30 hours a week to support himself, ($325 bi-weekly paychecks). That's $650 a month, and he has little chance of finding another job to schedule around his current one, or one that can supply more hours. The price of each bottle of his insulin used to be about $40, ($160 a month to stay alive), it has not gone up to $122 per bottle, ($488 a month to stay alive) That leaves him with about $160-$170 a ration food, transportation, and utilities (He stays on a friends couch because his parents cannot support him, and he cannot afford his own place) Let the 'elite' keep their private practice. but PLEASE let my friend afford his life!  written by Sydney , April 02, 2009 All you have to do to get an idea of reality is watch Micheal Moore's documentary, "Sicko." Even taken with the notion that half of this is actually true, it's enough to make you sick! Excuse me, I have some packing to do. Canada, England, or France, here I come!  written by Penelope C. , March 22, 2009 Just like I expected so many selfish people in this word hiding behine computers. You guys need to check yourselves. I see you don't think your sh$% stink, but one day it will. God will find a way for you. You will see and feel how hard it is in this world. There are people in this world that are really suffering. These are people that was weathy and lived off a silver platter. Living a good life will not always last forever. It is not easy in this world, especially if you're struggley. You have to find ways to survive which many of you have no idea how it is. It's easier said than actually living. I need to say no more. Watch what you say. Your time has come.  written by tt , March 04, 2009 To many of you who think UHC is unfair, you are right. So are many many many other government services. For example, I don't have children but my tax help pay for your children's schools. I don't go to public parks, yet I still pay for it so your children can enjoy. I don't go to sports events, yet I still pay for the building of the stadium that you and your children go to. The massive government spending on education don't benefit me a bit, yet I help pay for it. Now I am sick and uninsured. Tell me what have you done for me? If everyone is for oneself, I am all for it. Just don't tell me that you don't want to pay for me when I am sick and expect me to pay for you when I am healthy. written by scared , March 03, 2009 Getting mad or calling people names won't get us any where heck posting on this site won't do a dam thing for us either, its just nice to have a place to vent alittle. The only reason i suggested my thoughts about takeing over the insurance system is because it does a couple things, nobody would be let go from their jobs except the greedy ones that already have enough money to live the rest of their lives, insurance policies become more competitive and the profits wouldn't go into the pockets of the already super rich, ok ok one problem would be the corrupt politicians heading up the new system. And as far as stacy's comments I understand the frustration but God forbid it happens to one of your family members that smokes, drinks, does drugs, or maybe skydives and has a terrible accident, takes a turn to fast on a motorcycle, falls off a boat during a fun day of fishing and becomes dissable. The point is if we stop every thing considered potentialy dangerous to life itself then why live. You have to consider all the other things I mentioned because none of the above are necessary to sustain life, in other words everything mentioned would be considered STUPID and you think you shouldn't have to pay for it. Lets go one more step and talk about the poor unfortunate people who are born mentally or phisically impaired they didn't ask to be born that way and its a safe bet they won't be lined up and shot at sunrise. I will gladly pay extra to help those people. I personally am dead set against united health care because it will cost much more than what I pay now maybe more than I can afford, besides what i mentioned about my family members in previous post, I also have the oppertunity to talk to irish people at my job and asking them questions has shocking answers. It recently cost me about 40 dollars to register my car, in Ireland depending on whether you have a 4 6 or 8 cyclinder engine it may cost 400 to 800 euro a year. If you make 380 euro a week, you pay some where in the 30 something percent range in taxes, if you make over that you pay in the 40 something percent range. They pay for gas by the liter like 1.50 euro which is more like over 6 dollars a gallon. Countries with united health care pay between 20 and 45 percent sales tax. You won't like this but still worth saying most people like to go out and have a drink now and then or maybe sit in the back yard with a buddy and a beer and bs alittle, in other countries they pay at like 300 percent more for liquor than we do, and cigarettes us 30 dollars them 70 dollars per carton. And the list goes on and on and on. Most of this is just to pay for......yup..... UNITED HEALTH CARE. If only we could stop wasteful spending like the new stimulus package is doing we could start doing something today. I also here the new president say he WON'T raise taxes a dime on anybody making under 250 thousand, if thats true my first question is for how long, after his comment about not raising taxes I here that the tax cuts put in place by the Bush administration will expire at the end of 2010 and the new pres plans on letting that happen, oops I thought I was just told my taxes wouldn't go up a dime. The medical system is at least 15 percent of this nations industry that is an amazing number, and I can't imagine politicians taking over a complicated system like this and not dipping into the profits, heck the new pres already lost like 4 or 5 of his new members do to the fact they didn't even pay their own taxes. If there bold enough to do that and I am sure they all new they owed these taxes then how much more room should we give them, 15 percent of this nations industry? Nope bad plan. My question is not DO YOU GET IT, NOW but I don't think most of us get it at all...... YET!!!!!!!!!! written by Todd B. , March 03, 2009 I'd recommend to anyone debating on the No side of UHC to consider the following from a purely economical position.... The big question it seems for a lot of you is "Why should I have to pay for someone else being sick, not taking care of themselves, etc." OK. I'm going to dispel that myth right now and right where it hurts you. Your wallet. Lets say you have a job working at a company. Let's say your salary is $50,000/year. You think that's how much you make per year. Not even close. Not from your employers perspective anyway. He or she sees you making: $50k in salary, $10k in health insurance, he or she matches you social security tax (15% of $50k = $7,500), maybe matching 401k ($5,000), the workman's comp insurance and all other insurances required to keep you on staff = $2,000 - etc., etc., etc. So, your $50,000 a year salary is actually something like $75,000 a year. At least that's how your employer sees it. Now, lets say health insurance increases 30% next year, 10% the following and another 10% the next year (this IS exactly what is happening in the current system). Well, you're still making $50k a year. You go into your bosses office and say "I'd like a raise" — Your boss says ... "You already got one. Your health insurance cost has gone from $10k 3 years ago to $15,730 today. You got a $5,730 raise -- Didn't you get the memo?" — Ouch. Each year health insurance costs and medical costs continue to rise. That's one of the reasons the economy is in such dire straights. The middle class and especially the private sector are paying out the wazoo for health insurance. So, we need to sacrifice and make budget cuts in other areas. Meaning employee salaries, employee hours, can't buy a car I'm spending $5k a year extra on health insurance. Stuff like that. That's what's happening. NO ONE in the private sector is asking for a FREE handout. On the contrary we do believe in a strong work ethic - Work hard, get paid and have a better life. Unfortunately, in the current system - working hard doesn't mean taking home more money. It just means work harder to stay where you're at or more probably sink even lower. That's not the American dream. Finally, the fact is that a government subsidized UHS will help insure EVERYONE even people who lose their jobs during a recession, or those who get sick, or live in cities that once were prosperous but now are hurting (Flint, Michigan). Well, that's just a bonus. That's being compassionate. Trust me -- doing something nice for someone else will make your life much richer. But, ultimately the real issue is that the current health care system is NOT sustainable. It's no longer economically viable for any businesses. Big or Small. NO ... I'm not saying we need a UHS because it's the right thing to do. I'm saying if you want to have a job or make more money per year doing that job - then we better change the system that takes our pay raises and gives them to a big health insurance company. AND - because it's the right thing to do. DO YOU GET IT, NOW? written by Stacy , March 02, 2009 You guys are all stupid. Universal health care is not going to benefit anyone except the poor free riders who dont want to do anything with their lives. After installing universal health care they wont have too! Why should I have to pay more money to support the people who cant afford to get it in the first place. If they want health care they should get a better job and actually do something with their life rather than making me help pay for it. Also, why should I have to pay for the burden of the unhealthy. Those who smoke and drink and do drugs and dont take care of their body, they are the ones who are going to need the expensive healthcare, I wont. So why again am I paying for them? They certainly dont deserve it. On top of all that, when I actually do need healthcare, there is going to be a huge wait time and horrible service, so I am paying extra money to get crappy service? Oh but I am helping out those poor unfortunate people who couldnt afford it...no thanks. Ill help myself, just like they should be doing. written by Todd B. , February 28, 2009 Actually, I had an idea similar to the one you are proposing. As a sole-proprietor of my business I pay approximately $15,000 a year for health insurance for my family (myself, my wife and our child). If the U.S. government offered a Universal Health Care Package for my small business and said it will cost me $7,000 a year. Well, in essence they would be saying we're going to raise your taxes by $7,000 a year - right? I'd jump on it -- I'd be pleased as punch for them to raise my taxes (because it would actually be for something I could use). It's likely every other business out there would jump on that opportunity to. That's because they would be saving me $8,000 a year — right? Well, not really - because that $8,000 is no longer an itemized write off - it becomes taxable income. So, the government would get a $7,000 premium cost from me to use on a National Healthcare Package as well as whatever taxes they would get from the remaining $8,000 to use on whatever they want. For me, I'm saving around $8,000 a year. That's a lot of money. That's a new car (the real-deal, auto-maker bail out). Or, because we all know our government isn't perfect ... part of that $8,000 could be used to supplement my health insurance with a private health insurance carrier. Or, it could be used for personal purchases or reinvesting in my business or investing in the market. However, I use the $8,000 it's stimulating the economy, right? And it's an $8,000 stimulus per family — not a $400 stimulus. I mean c'mon are the kidding us? If I'm one of 150 million small businesses (or whatever the actual figure is) that's a boatload of cash now being saved and also being spent. That's hundreds of billions of dollars in NEW U.S. government revenue. It would also save very large companies (GE, GMC, Ford, etc.) hundreds of millions of dollars in health insurance costs - which would make them more competitive in a global market. We'd still have private health insurance carriers to cover things like gap insurance. More specialty types of insurance needs (but, that would be optional for those who could afford it). For those who couldn't — Well, at the very least they have a strong foundation of health insurance - provided by the government. Regulated by the government. The government could even start to make it mandatory (a law) for health records to become computerized - thus saving billions in "red tape". Sometimes, I feel like the only human being - living in America who thinks this stuff up. I don't think I'm a genius or anything — but, compared to what's being proposed out there I sure appear to be one. This is totally doable — and the crazy thing is EVERYONE (Conservative, Liberal, Rich, Poor, Middle-Class most importantly, Big Business, Small Business, Private Sector and Public) would benefit. I'm really interested in hearing any argument on the other side of this. Is there any? written by scared , February 25, 2009 Why don't we have the government take over the insurance companies instead of medical system, then the government can use all the bonus money and profits to pay down the national debt. Then profits can pay for the unisured. written by scared , February 24, 2009 There are definitly options to pay for health care for the poor and needy. If you go to the site called stimuluswatch.org just looking at the first page that comes up and look at the list of proposed projects for the 800 billion stimlulus just signed into effect there is no doubt in my mind health care would not be a problem. The first on the list is almost 1 million for doorbells, 20 million for a down town quiet zone in san diego huh, 375 million for a performing arts center....what, 1.5 million to reduce prostitution... come on,386 million for Construction of Convention Center Hotel, 6 million for snow making and maintenance, 10 million for bike and pedestrian trail, my point is there is enough money already pumped into the government to fix and maintain health care, because these projects normally would be at least partially financed by the government. We as a nation should think about our problems first before we think of 10 million for tennis courts and yes that is also on the list. How as human beings can we feel good about spending like this when we have children with out health care I just don't get it. There is a tremendous amout of good projects on the list that should be considered mostly infrastructure, but just go to the site and see it state by state. I am disgusted. written by Todd B. , February 23, 2009 I completely agree with Katie (below)... "Not everything that works for Canada and France is going to work for us." Quite frankly, if you listen to them, Canadian and French citizens will point out several flaws in their current systems. The one thing that they all agree on though is that it's great that EVERYONE is covered and that its affordable. No one has to reverse-mortgage their home to pay for prescriptions or sell their home because their child needs an operation. America is the LAST, INDUSTRIALIZED, CIVILIZED, NATION on the PLANET to have a UHS. We can choose the good and lose the bad practices from what others have tried before us. We could have an affordable, efficient system available to all. Why wouldn't you want that? As far as cost .. think about this. About a year ago (before this current recession) the English pound note was equal to approximately $2. That means if as a British citizen you made 75,000 pounds per year - that would be equal to $150,000. Yes they pay higher taxes. But, even if it was 50% -- it would be equal to what you make right now. Also, look at what they get for their taxes: Health insurance for everyone, a retirement pension plan, their elderly receive FREE heating and are looked after, on average they take 4-6 weeks of vacation time (more bank holidays than us), free or low-cost higher education (university), a longer life-span. Just do the research and you will be amazed at just how far behind we are. Its actually embarrassing. written by Katie , February 22, 2009 Ok, so here's my problem with all of this. Maybe there is a solution to health care but we haven't found the right one yet. We know what the problems are. People are having a hard time affording it, not everyone knows how exactly to get it, and no one wants to get taxed even more. Is it possible that we could come up with our own health care? Why is it that we have to look at other countries and do what works for them? We are not these other countries. We are our own country with our own problems and our own ways to make things work. Not everything that works for Canada and France is going to work for us. written by scared , February 22, 2009 I have family living in a country that has uhc, one member lost a kidney only because there was to long of a wait for a bed!!!! Another member improperly diagnosed for a minor heart attack, about a year later went back to the hospital with more problems was finnaly properly diagnosed, then discovered an operation was needed to fix the problem. Now this person must wait for a bed in the proper facility which performs the operation and that wait was over a month. It was discovered a 7 way bypass had to be performed. I never heard of such a thing and wouldn't believe this story if it wasn't first hand. Anyway while they were in there they discovered an aneurysm thank god this person went back in time. Needless to say this person walked, worked, and lived as a ticking time bomb for over a year. I am sure there are plenty of horror stories for the system we have which scks, but if we accept uhc now we can't go back. And it will only get worse. If in the job I have now I knew what my paycheck would be for the rest of my career it would be easier to do an exceptable job at it and take my check home and survive. But I have the chance to improve things at work and be compensated for it with raises. If as a doctor under uhc those options would be limited if accesable at all. Don't think they will like that. So health care will suffer. In the country these people come from they pay 21% sales tax on items they buy, that means 300% more than what we pay now, and that is not even close to whats needed for the medical systems cost, so the government also took over the alchol sales and distribution pricing, 12 years ago these family members came here to visit and I took them to the store to get groceries and vodka, they were shocked to see the bottle of vodka cost 16.99 when the same bottle where they come from was 40.00, remember this was 12 years ago, this is just a few things that government must do to pay for the UHC. There is not enough space on this page to talk about their property taxes, taxes on their pay, taxes on new car purchase, gas taxes, ect. ect.ect. With all my heart I know there is another answer, everyone alive deserves access to the medical system. One good step might be to stop all the perks politician recieve like lifetime medical bennifits, life long paychecks, and being able to vote in their own pay raises, none of us will ever see these things for ourselves. I say yes to change and NO to Universal Health Care!!!!!!!!!!!!! written by Todd B. , February 18, 2009 OK. Here's the deal... You've got to have Health Insurance. If you're one of the 40 million Americans without it - you are gambling with everything you have and your future. 6 months ago I had a cerebral aneurysm - One day I was working (self employed) I got this wicked neck pain, knew something was wrong, went to my local hospital. About 3 hours later after some tests I'm being sent by helicopter to a major University Hospital. The next day I'm lying on an operating table having brain surgery. About a week later - I'm being driven home. 1 month later, I'm back to normal (for the most part). No serious side effects. I'm one of the lucky 10% that come through it without any permanent damage or requiring rehabilitation. Total Hospital Bill = $180,000 ... Yes, that's really the cost ($180k). I have health insurance -- I pay $15,000 a year for my health insurance through my sole proprietorship business. My out of pocket cost for the hospital bills = under $1,000. I found out most people are born with aneurysms. They are just walking around with them. Stress, lifestyle, smoking, even serious exertion (like intense exercise) can trigger them. In my case it was more than likely stress. So, if your argument is why should healthy people pay for unhealthy people or people who live dangerously. Then the only thing I can offer is ... Nobody can predict when they are going to need health care. And when you do ... if you don't have health insurance - because you can't afford it or you don't think you'd need it. Everything you have will be gone. Your American government is asking you to roll those dice every day of your life. Just by getting in your car and driving to work you are at risk of having an accident that requires medical attention. Countries like Canada, France, England and Japan have made a commitment to stand by their citizens. I truly think we're less civilized than they are. Also, once you are a patient in the U.S. Healthcare System. Then you'll really get a lesson on how bad the "system" is. Doctors and Nurses are great -- I love each and everyone of them and thank them for saving my life. Technology is awesome. However, the system is worse than anything I've ever run into in government. It is worse than the IRS tax system. I truly hope none of you have to experience just how bad it is. It is my single biggest stress and I look forward to the day when it is truly behind me. So, I'll sum it up this way ... I will always have health insurance. Whether as an American citizen or a Canadian or a European. I will always have health insurance for myself and my family. It is one of the single most important expenses in our lives. And you know who knows that? The Health Insurance Companies. It's no wonder it accounts for more money per year than my mortgage. It will continue to go up - every year. Until fewer and fewer Americans can afford it. Until fewer and fewer American businesses can continue to conduct business in the U.S. And until fewer and fewer people have any faith in the system or in the government protecting it. God Bless all of you and always remember you have nothing if you don't have your health. written by Mister J. , February 13, 2009 I think we need Universal Health Care in this country, I have seen how Canada and France among other countries respond to having a UHC system, they love it. It will benefit all the people who actually need the healthcare, who are working every day just to pay the bills and and hardly get by, just hoping that in this economy, that when they come to work the next day, that it won't be there last. So, that is my standpoint on UHC, I am all for it. 100% written by class of 11 , February 12, 2009 the number of people in this country that do not have insurance is over 40 billion, and most of them have jobs and work there but off just to barely make it. Healthcare is getting pretty ridiculous with the high priced insurance. If we had universal healthcare doctors would pay more attention to the patient rather than the insurance issues. Most people do not go to the doctors, not because they dont wanna pay, but becaue they cannot afford it. Why be paying off medical bills for the next five years or more when we can all have equal medicare. Some people say if your a good citizen then you should have good healthcare and shouldnt have to pay higher. But if your a good citizen you would want to help the lower class people or less fortuante. You wouldnt want to see someone dying on the side of the road because he or she cant afford to see a doctor now would you? An easier government system that decreases the cost of medical help would help the economic recovery out alot. written by Viv , February 10, 2009 What do we do next then?why cant our government allow surgerys with out expecting some outrages deductible, or premium coverage? I dont know but I think that is the real question we cant keep turning our heads and thinking of ourselves. Im not sure if i agree with the government controlling our entire healthcare system but someone has to stand up and take care of the people in need. If someone cant work because of a medical condition they shouldnt have to wait 2yrs before the can get medicare that person could be working and paying taxes during that time if only they could get healthy again..... I dont know the entire situation sickens me I just think we should all stop being selfish.. written by Rreptillian , February 06, 2009 why does everyone have such a problem with socialism? as soon as most people hear the word they start freaking out with images of the soviet union AFTER their system collapsed and became corrupted. (whaddya know, it actually worked out very well for a while!!) I know this will sound really idealistic, but if people could just learn to think beyond themselves, a lot of our problems today could be solved. written by Christian, a former UPS laborer, current UPS supervisor. , January 28, 2009 You people complaining about UHC should input a bit more research without complaining about it upfront. I noticed that most of you are arguing with the "this is stupid" approach or "should have gotten a job". Let me tell you, my father has worked for General Electric for almost 30 years and he works his butt off to provide for me and my mother. Provided, I am in college and I have a job, but because of high prices of insurance, I've opted out of my company's insurance. Before you say anything, I work for UPS and they have good insurance, if you can afford it. Back to my father though, I stay on his insurance because he has just a little better than would be available to me, and he cuts a fourth of his check or more for the insurance and "just in case" savings. This is with 6 to 7 days a week of work WITH Overtime almost every day. I don't believe that swearing in an argument gets the job done most times, but I'll make an exception. [Expletive deleted by editors] you. (My apologies to anyone else) You who say someone should have gotten a job. It helps, yes, but it doesn't solve much. For people like my father who have been at work more than than at home, who only saw their kids grow up part-time, who provide every piece of themselves that they can for their families, they deserve a little bit of a break. If I have to take away a little more of my weekly check in taxes, then so be it. If I have to wait in line for an extra 3 hours with the flu, then I will. If it gives a break to hard-working men and women, then I can give up what I can. As a former laborer myself, I can personally respect someone who works their butt off to make ends meet. For people who just criticize with no information, please don't comment on these things, it's shameful and shows how immature you are. I may not have much research to put in on this area at the moment, but at least I have a valid reason to leave a comment. For my stance on Universal Health Care, I think anyone who read this should know it by now. If nothing else, enact this for the sake of the ones that DO work themselves into a grave, because they have certainly earned it. written by give me a break , January 26, 2009 This is what happens when a lot of people are receiving free stuff and figured WHY WORK? Now look what happened. Blame the GOVERNMENT for making it nice and cozy for you all. How long did you think free stuff was going to be around? Think of all the people who get up early and go to work to support their families (and you)and are just getting by. They can't get free college, afraid they cannot afford another pregnancy, watch their neighbor have the same stuff or more as them and they work and you don't. free healthcare while standing in line with massive jewelery and the latest jeans and sneakers, ipods, cell phones, ear pierced babies, SUV's etc. sickening written by Leigh Ann , January 21, 2009 Cyrena, Yes, this is for discussion among everyone, not just doctors. Thank you for sharing your opinions. And thank you to everyone else for doing so, as well. We read all the comments and much appreciate them. Keep 'em comin'! Leigh Ann Hubbard Managing Editor James Hubbard's My Family Doctor written by Cyrena Albarran , January 20, 2009 Universal Healthcare is Healthcare that is provided for all. Not just the one’s who can afford healthcare but also for the one who can not. I think of it as Medicaid insurance only your options for providers are not just limited to just a few. You will have a choice as to what doctor would be the best for you. Granted the United States would be responsible for the payment of this “universal” health. Sure some will say why do I have to pay for somebody else coverage? But the way I think about it…..you premiums would probably be lower then what you’re used to pay right now. Well this year it is very possible and defiantly a current issue. As for alternatives I fell that we have tried all of them. I personally have had healthcare through employment paying the HIGH price for family coverage when only used the services maybe 5xs a year (I didn’t get my moneys worth!). Then I have had financial troubles and resorted to Medicaid only to find that not all Doctors will see you and frankly you get crappy service and not the best medical care! At least with this Universal Healthcare no one I fell can be singled out. Universal is for everyone! That why it’s called universal. The attached website is from the opinions of physician on their pro and con’s but I have written this response to these arguments from my perspective. This is for discussion right? http://www.familydoctormag.com/medical-index/doctors-office/doctors-debate-universal-health-care-pros-and-cons-from-the-experts.html written by John , January 05, 2009 universal health care is overrated. most of the doctors i have personally spoken with have cringed at even the thought of UHC. It would mean more taxes(even for people who dont need it), you would have long waiting periods to even get in, also doctors will be limited on the amount of patients they can see. it hurts us. written by Stephanie , December 31, 2008 where should i go i have so many Question for example -would it make diagnosis and treatment easier for doctors -would doctor focus on doing what´s best for their patients written by physyko , December 28, 2008 Universal healthcare and socialized medicine tend to be extremely polarizing terms. The fact is that the whole world is moving to what we call the "Education" model of healthcare. Educators like to say there are three types of education: public, private and parochial. Although of course parochial is but a segment of private. In healthcare this translates to a public safety net, a private medical industrial complex and the alternative medicine market. The reality is that today no-one not in Canada, not in the UK, can stop a wealthy individual from accessing private healthcare. All those individuals do is get on a plane. The reality is that the US already has the beginnings of a public health safety net in the form of Children's Services Programs and Medicare/Medical. All that needs to be done in the US is for these programs to be expanded to allow anyone who so chooses to partake of them. Anyone who wants to continue with their existing private program should be able to. And of course the increasing numbers of people that for various reasons including beliefs and price point chooses to use alternative medicine will continue to do so. Although it doesn't appear like we are going in the right direction, we actually are. We just need to expand existing programs to cover everyone. Fortunately the additional funding necessary to expand coverage is not that great as there will be significant savings by eliminating the existing system overhead administrative and marketing costs. written by Daniel McGraw , December 15, 2008 I think my title says it all. I can not find one instance where a country with socialized medicine has returned to a free market insurance controlled medicine like the U.S. has. Can it be that the citizens of the countries with socialized medicine actually like it? written by anonymous , December 14, 2008 There will always be greedy, corrupted, power hungry people out there who will emphasize the cons of everything to stay in power. written by Jordan , December 13, 2008 I want you all to look at countries like Costa Rica, Italy, and the UK. All 3 have great universal health care systems that work. Do a little bit more research and then you can get on your soap box and complain about a universal health care system. However, I think you will find that you will actually be on the other side of the argument. written by john smith , December 02, 2008 this is one of the most retartedideas ever written by Austin , December 01, 2008 Give me one government program that has effectively worked. Abuse of the system, rationing, and long waiting lists will surely take place. The idea of government bureaucrats having control over my health doesnt exactly feel all that great. Also, if we get a government-run health care system, where will all the Canadians and Brits go for their healthcare? Whatever happened to the notion of individuals taking care of themselves and instead relying on the clowns in Congress which have given them nothing, over and over again? As an 18 year old, I cant wait to see the politicians experiment their proposed health care plans upon us. written by Matt G. , November 25, 2008 How do you people expect the government to be able to run a complex system like health care? When was the last time you went to the DMV? I know when most people go into the DMV just to take a picture it takes half an hour. What do you think the healthcare system will be like. Too many people already abuse the healthcare system, when it becomes available for all, all will abuse it. The people that abuse healthcare outweigh the people that do not seek medical treatment. I know I want to pay an extra few grand to see some people abuse government spending and my money. Instead of all these people spending their money on useless stuff, tell them to plan ahead for a couple of years and you will be fine. Get a job, and support yourself. Man up, and stop living on other's expenses. written by sami , November 21, 2008 I am all for the universal health care system for the U.S. It's ridiculous how some people avoid going to the doctors even when they are in serious conditions. You shouldn't be worried to get treatment because you cannot afford the fees. Health care should be available to all american citizens. A single payer universal health care system would not be considered socialized medicine. I think this is not hard to decide. It hurts when you hear about people that are sick and dying just because they don't want to be paying off medical fees from 5 years ago or more. written by Kathy , November 20, 2008 I work in a small hospital that mainly provids health care to the needy. Even though most of these patients can afford their alcohol, drugs, and cigarettes, they can not afford health insurance. Most do not work - per their choice. They use the emergency doctors as if they are their family doctor. Excuses I hear are many. They get great peronsonal care, free tests, free meds - of course they are upset when it is not a narcotic. Some are very demanding and threatening to the staff. We have many illegal immigrants who come in and often forget what name they gave when walking in the door. They receive free hospitalization. Funny that most claim they can not speak english but yet forgets when talking with a american friend. Hmmmm I wonder how this univeral healthcare is really going to work. We already have abusers of the services already provided. So I am wondering if this program is really going to be beneficial for those who have a responsible, moral, life. As for the insurance companies charging huge fees, I can honestly say that it is a rip off. I am paying for insurance that the majority of I will never use. For example: I do no plan are having anymore babies. So, why can't I just pay for insurance that I would use? That is formed just for me. The $300 dollars I pay per month I could use. So if Universal Insurance will be for everyone, why not! written by Sara , November 20, 2008 I think it's pretty ridiculous how people are dying every day just because they don't have enough money. People are avoiding going to the hospital when they don't think that they can afford it, and I think our government needs to step up and help the people of the United States. People need to go to the doctor for regular check-ups, and it's just wrong when it gets to the point where people can't even afford to do that anymore written by sara , November 16, 2008 I agree that universal health care should come into effect. i believe our medicine system and cost of treatment are over hyped.Most of the insurance companies and hospital systems take over 3-4 times the real cost of treatment from the insured patients anyway, firstly to make profit and to offset the loses from uninsured and homeless people. so who is paying extra ! We the people who are insured. second point-why should the hard working class suffer when an unxpected event like cancer etc leads them to disability when most of their life they were making the country grow. should we give an example to the world that america is a great country for only for the rich or healthy or young peolpe who are active. lastly we should acheive universal health care by bringing the over hyped cost of the health care system down and at the same time work on decresing the so called possible long wait for physician down close to our current system and take the good of all health care systems in the world. SOunds idealistic but not impossible written by Tim Davis , November 04, 2008 I own my own business and I am the only employee of that business. If the work doesn't get done, no money comes in. That's the chance you take when you work for yourself. A given. In the US, when an illness strikes it can bankrupt you and your business and you lose everything you've worked for. That's what happened to me. Last December, I became mentally and physically disabled from a debilitating condition. Then name of that condition that still afflicts me is still unknown. Why? Because I have no health insurance and there is no help from the government. I saw a psychiatrist for a few months running up huge medical bills until the point where I could no longer pay. When I could no longer pay I was cut off. The doctor just gave me a medicine cocktail and changed it when it didn't work. No tests were run, just here take this medicine that costs $500 a month, which didn't work and just made things worse. After I was no longer able to see my doctor, it was recommended to go to the free health clinic where I was turned away and not allowed to see a doctor because I owned my own house and was educated and according to the social workers, I should be able to find my own resources. I was told by one social worker that they had no time for me because they were getting ready for an audit and others who had children needed more help than I did. A couple months later I attempted suicide after losing my life savings. Now I'm losing my home. I did everything from contacting my Congressmen to calling the head of the Health and Human Services for the state. There was no help for someone in my position. I am still sick and do not have the means to support myself and still there is no help. To be eligible for Social Security disability benefits you have to be disabled for two years first. A person will starve to death before that happens. This is supposed to be a country where someone can work hard and get ahead. But without healthcare for everyone, it becomes a country for only the rich and insured and the middle-class is being wiped out. I am told that this is a "christian" nation, however, it doesn't act christ like. According to the bible, jesus cared for the sick, the poor and the down trodden. If this country wants to boast to be a christian nation, it needs to act accordingly. But this nation is not doing that. There is nothing christ like about this nation, but filled with hypocrites. Until there is equal healthcare for all, this nation will be filled with people who make decisions whether to pay for their prescriptions this month or pay for food. The homeless rate will continue to rise as Washington bails out the rich and let the people who fall ill, fall into bankruptcy and poverty never to return. So I tell you, if you call yourself a christian, act like it and help care for the sick and the poor. But apparently you so-called christians are too concerned for the life of a mass of tissue that isn't a person to care for the actual people who need help. I assure you I will not pay one cent of income tax in this country until there is healthcare for all and not just for the rich and the very poor, leaving out the people who built this nation - the middle class. My only chance of survival is gather enough money to leave this country and move to a country that has universal healthcare, where I can find out what's wrong with me and start treatment for whatever it is that ails me where I can return to work or re-start my business. It's either that or stay here and die in the streets. Great country eh? written by Melissa , November 03, 2008 Why would anyone want universal health care. Universal health care would decrease the quality of care provided to americans! Plus what incentive does that give any person to go through rigorous schooling to become a doctor or a nurse?? The government is supposed to be hands off!! Not hands on! If the governement controls health care and something goes wrong who is going to correct it. Certaintly not the government. written by Alaina , October 25, 2008 In the U.S., we already have socialized services: the police, fire department, public schooling, and others. I rarely hear people complain that their tax dollars are being spent on these services. It would be atrocious if someone were to say "well I don't want MY tax dollars being spent to help put a fire out at someone ELSE'S home. How is it helping ME?" We would immediatly excuse them as socially insensitive. So why is this okay to say when one's tax dollars are being spent to help alleviate someone's cancer, prevent childhood obesity, and save lives? It is simply a selfish way to view the healthcare system, and it absolutely aggrevates me. written by James Hubbard, M.D., M.P.H. , October 20, 2008 Thanks Megan. It's good to get the views from people that use the system. written by Megan , October 18, 2008 I have done so much research on this topic, it's kind of ridiculous! As an American, I would NOT ever vote to have universal healthcare! Along with the research I've done to come to this conclusion, I have many friends that live and have lived in Canada, where we all know UHC is implemented. Not one of them is a fan. In fact, 4 of these people have moved to the US to get away from the system. I guess when they're sick, they actually like to be seen in a timely manner instead of being miserable for months. Who knew? Great Aritcle! Thanks! written by James Hubbard, M.D., M.P.H, , September 11, 2008 Thanks for the comments and perspective, Christine. Glad you like the website. written by Christine , September 10, 2008 Given the option to trade our Canadian system for the American system...my answer would be a resounding NO! Seriously...I don't know what everybody is afraid of down south of the border. Also...don't you know about the propensity of Canadians to whine? BTW...Great website! written by James Hubbard, M.D., M.P.H. , August 28, 2008 Many people have those same fears, Nell. I hope the "powers" can get together to find a good, acceptable solution, that does not cause additional problems. Thanks for the comments. written by Nell , August 28, 2008 There needs to be an overhaul of the insurance companies - no doubt about it. But I don't believe that socialized health care is where we should start. Heck, I'm insured through my husband and it doesn't mean we could afford all the costs of a health crisis simply because we have insurance. written by Lea , June 29, 2008 For the perspective of a man who was a physician throughout the period of the NHS in the UK and who is appalled that this public service is being "privatized" to enrich (primarily foreign) buinessmen at the expense of the UK and its public's health, please see The Political Economy of Healthcare: A Clinical Perspective, by Julian Tudor Hart. The current and past level of debate about universal healthcare is bogeyman talk, meant to scare children into blind acceptance of the industrialization of healthcare. Healthcare costs what it costs, and it costs more when 30% overhead is required to administer it profitably. I have to take issue with this statement: "Compared to the private sector, government programs are inefficient and the higher costs have to be paid for with higher taxes or spending cuts in other areas such as defense, education, or even medical research and development. This is a tradeoff that most Americans would not be willing to make." From the book cited above, citing data from the OECD, Western European systems that cover everyone spend 8-9% of GDP on healthcare, while the US was spending 15% to *not* cover everyone (back then, and I understand that we're passing 16% now). This is the trade-off that Americans actually are making. Respectfully, Dr. O'Shea, "adequately informed assessment by individual patients and their providers about the value of services in a particular clinical situation" would be great, but isn't any more likely to happen now (when a physician has to see a half-dozen or more patients per hour to break even) than it would be in an NHS-type system. I agree, however, that coverage does not equal access. Providing everyone with health insurance will just make the health insurance companies richer, despite their cries of "don't throw me into the briar patch." We need to provide everyone with health care itself.  written by Leigh Ann , April 24, 2008 Thanks, Sandy. Glad you liked the article! We're always interested in what readers want to see debated, as well, so please suggest away if you'd like! (Our current issue covers on-demand C-sections, and we have two abortion debates planned.) Thanks so much for commenting. To Your Health, Leigh Ann Hubbard Managing Editor James Hubbard's My Family Doctor written by Sandy Richardson , April 21, 2008 Thanks for this article and your website. I'ts too bad we get such little detail in the presidential debates to really understand these important issues as voters. I like this format also and hope that others will reply to this type of discussion with thier opinions and other relevant facts. 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One of the top issues on your mind this year is likely to be health care. Buzz word: universal.
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